Switching Topics
Friday, January 19th, 2007Well, here I am.
Thrice I said that I would post my next entry, and today will make it thrice that I have fallen short of fulfilling that promise. On the upside, I’ve spent that time helping to make sure that you get your daily lessons! However, today, instead of simply telling you that I might post my entry next week, I will give you something a little different (that should be a much quicker writeup).
As I mentioned previously, I have recently started attending a Japanese language school here in Tokyo. Whether it’s been one or two weeks since I started, I can’t quite remember. Nonetheless, I know this topic may be of interest to some of you, so I will intertwine updates about this experience with my kanji learning entries from time to time. Today will be the first update.
My first class. The first class that I was placed in was about fifteen Chinese people and myself. Well, to be fair, one is from Taiwan. I’ve always heard that Chinese people have a large advantage over westerners when learning Japanese because they already use kanji daily. The largest discovery while attending my first class was probably that I don’t believe this to be true anymore. While they probably have a better idea of the meanings, the manner of writing many of the kanji is different, especially for those who use simplified Chinese. And although the onyomi is supposed to be the Chinese pronunciation, the difference is large enough that many times the Chinese are unsure. Of course, for a complete beginner, anyone from a country that uses kanji will have some kind of advantage over someone from a country that does not use kanji. However, I feel that we all have to study kanji diligently, no matter where we’re from.
Now, you may be wondering why I said my “first” class. Two days ago, I switched classes. I moved up one level because the class I started in was a bit too easy. My new class has a little bit more variety. I’m told that the statistics are as follows: 1 Myanmar, 1 Indian, 5 Koreans, and about 8 or so Chinese. This class is a bit more lively because the students feel confident enough to make jokes every now and then, and understand enough to laugh at them. My first class had two male teachers, but my current class has two female teachers. Both sets consist of one fairly young, and then one slightly older (let’s be nice here).
Having only spent a short time in school, and an even shorter time in my new class, I can’t tell you a whole lot more. Over all, though, I am enjoying my time there so far. I will try to make more updates as time moves on. And now I must go. (I stayed late just for you!) Have a great weekend, and I’ll see you next week (I think).
Nathan
Posted by Nathan in Nathan's Notebook |
January 19th, 2007 at 6:32 pm
annie-san,
In reply to your comment on the last post… thanks for helping to keep our forums lively
I would be doing it if I had time! 
I go to class five days per week - Monday through Friday. The class is from 1:30pm - 5:00pm (it was previously 9:00am - 12:30pm). I cut down on my work time drastically, so I’m not working full time anymore. (Can you call it full-time? Double full-time? :win
It is a group class, and as for my level… well, I don’t want to brag, but I’ll just say I don’t feel left behind.
As for having enough time to devote to both, I’d say definitely not! I have to work very quickly now to get everything I need to do at JapanesePod101.com done now (and things like my blog go undone, as you can see). And personally, I like to devote a lot of time to study outside of the class. A lot. But that’s just me. So the truth is that there probably is enough time, but I’d definitely like more.
Where are you in Japan and what do you do?
January 19th, 2007 at 8:52 pm
Nathan-san,
Good post. I can relate to not being able to spend as much time on things as you would like. When I have to rush I question my work more and feel scattered at best. Good luck with your class and your doing an awesome job with the JapanesePod101 site!
January 20th, 2007 at 3:47 am
Nathan-san
Thank you very much for sharing with us about your school and Japanese classes
Its very interesting
I like went people share a little about their life in a friendly conversation without limitations!:lol 
Its good to know that Chinese want to learn Japanese but what I got surpris
is that Japanese don’t wanna learn Chinese! you wanna know why? My Japanese friend told me that its because for them Chinese is like trying to learn Latin 
I really didn’t know very clear what she mean just and idea but its a true that is worth realizying don’t you think?:cool
Well Nathan-san thanks once again and don’t worry we are very good patience listeners so take your time and do your blog until you feel wanna do it ok! Don’t force yourself to hard ok see ya
S_R_C
January 20th, 2007 at 9:30 pm
Nathan-san
Very interesting what you said about the Chinese trying to learn Japanese Kanji. It’s a really intriguing matter. I remember Peter-san had said the same thing thing in one of the podcasts.
The point is: How similar can Janapanese Kanji be of Traditional Chinese? And how about Korean Hanja? Ok, we have to disconsider Simplified Chinese, because it’s completely different from Traditional writing.
Also, what you said about the manner of writing being different, that is some piece of news too. I wish I could have some more contact with Chinese people to have a better idea about those differences.
Thank you for sharing these experiences of yours with us!!!
Ganbatte ne!!!
January 21st, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Nathan, how much did your course cost? How long does it go for?
January 22nd, 2007 at 8:58 am
Brian-san,
There’s never enough time in a day, is there?
Sindy-san,
Thanks for always commenting!
I am sure there are a number of reasons that there are so many Chinese people in the classes. Of course, one of them is that mainland China is still considered a developing country, while Japan is considered a developed country. But yes, in addition, I am sure Chinese is still difficult for a native Japanese. The Latin analogy is referring to the fact that Chinese can be considered the root of Japanese (at least the kanji), while Latin is considered the root of the English language 
João Paulo-san,
Japanese kanji is much closer to traditional Chinese kanji than to simplified, of course. Still, many of them are different, and there are, of course, native Japanese kanji, as well. My comment about the manner of writing was mostly referring to the differences between the kanji between the various systems. The general principles (for strokes, order, etc.) remain constant, I believe, but I could be wrong.
Troy-san,
My course happens to be one of the most expensive in Tokyo (just because of location, I think), so consider it at the top end. Some are much cheaper, of course. It is for one year and three months, and it was just a bit below 800,000 yen in all, or around $6,600.
January 22nd, 2007 at 11:35 am
Nathan,
Thanks for the info.
January 24th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Nathan-san
Thank You very much for telling what my Japanese friend meant
I learn something new 
S_R_C
January 24th, 2007 at 10:31 pm
Nathan-san,
800,000 doesn’t seem like that much for a 15 month course. Though, I guess I might call your course a half-time course, since it’s only for 3.5 hours/day. (but, can you really spend much more time in class without going crazy, i’m not sure) I’m not sure I can imagine trying to balance a full schedule of work and school. Right now I’m trying to decide if I can afford to not work and enroll in a full-time intensive language program.
Did you mention what sort of school you’re going to? Is it through a University, or a private language school?
To answer your question, I’m really just in Japan for the snowboarding…
(okay, not really, but I spend more hours snowboarding than I do teaching)
I’m a junior high school ALT in Nagano-ken. Moved here about 4 months ago, from Chiba-ken, where I taught English conversation. And I spent a year of University here as well.
January 24th, 2007 at 10:43 pm
Hi
Chinese learning japanese Kanji… piece of cake.. No doubt the chinese can catch the meaning, the stroke order, and its context in the sentence.. Simplified or Traditional.. its pictorial in most cases. Hands down, chinese can grasp the meaning faster than a Gaijin learning his first three strokes for “da River”. But, that said, Gaijin get the nod for katakana in my book…
January 25th, 2007 at 8:49 am
Sindy-san,
My pleasure!
annie-san,
One day I went to both classes - morning and afternoon - for a total of 7 hours of class. I think I could do it every day, but that’s just me
I did the full-time work and school thing in the U.S., and it’s not fun at all. That’s why I cut down on work when I started - I wanted to make sure I could balance both.
The school is a private language school. That is probably why 800,000 might not seem like much. If it was through a university, it would most likely be more. How do you like being an ALT?
Dave-san,
I am sure much of the equation relies on the individual, but I am just sharing what I saw in the classroom. Most of the Chinese were struggling with the kanji. I think if I had to re-learn the alphabet, but each character was drawn a bit differently and had different pronunciations, I would have some advantage having already known my alphabet, but it would still be difficult. And then if there were 3000 letters in the alphabet… So yes, like I said, I think from the get-go, there is a big advantage, but as you continue to study, the gap lessens and at some point seems to disappear.
January 25th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
Nathan-san,
My brain kind of turns off after 4 or 5 hours of studying.
I love being an ALT. My situation is a bit unique though- I have a lot more control over my classes than most ALTs and the teachers I work with are really receptive to my ideas. And I teach independently a lot of the time.
That’s why I’m having a hard time deciding whether to stay another year or two, or go to language school. I loved teaching at an eikaiwa too, but this is a lot more fun and a lot less stress. Compared with eikaiwa work, I all of a sudden have time to eat lunch, time for coffee breaks, and time to “research” on the internet.
And about Chinese learning Japanese. I was quite shocked to see that on the kanji portion of the JLPT I was able to finish at the same time (or earlier) than the room full of Chinese kids.
January 25th, 2007 at 5:58 pm
おはよ Nathan-san,
It is great to hear how school is going and all that you are up to. And a promotion already- おめでとう! :grin
Sindy-san,
Interesting comments on Japanese speakers learning the Chinese language being like English speakers learning Latin- I learned Latin in high school and enjoyed it. I have always thought it was quite useful, root language of English and all that…I wish I was doing as well with my Japanese studies, but I was, after all, a full time professional learner at that time and am only a part time recreational learner now.
January 30th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
Nathan-sa
Barbara-sa
S_R_C
Thank You for your respond
February 3rd, 2007 at 8:14 am
Imagine you were trying to read a Japanese text with someone periodically SHOUTING the translation in your ear. It would be distracting, wouldn’t it? That’s what reading Japanese for a Chinese learner is like sometimes.
Picture this: you are reading a difficult text, struggling to work out the meaning, intensely concentrating, and suddenly the language changes without you noticing it.
つまり、 if I started to 書く kinda like これ, would あなた find it more 簡単 or less so?
February 4th, 2007 at 4:51 am
I learned traditional Chinese (HK Cantonese) as my first language then Mandarin. Now I am learning Japanese. I think Chinese speakers definitely have an advantage. For me it was never a problem to know the meaning of a kanji. Even if the word is not exactly the same, the root or radical would tell me something. Sometimes the pronunciation is similar which serves as a pretty good mnemonic device. But I have to study as hard as anyone else to memorize the all X number of readings a kanji can have. Also for Chinese speakers, Katakana is much harder. There is also no concept of verb or adjective conjugation in Chinese. A fundamental grammar point that needs to be pounded into my head (when I was learning English even for that matter). And don’t get me started on all the levels of politeness.I reckon learning Japanese for a Chinese speaker is like an English speaker learning French. Everything is vaguely familiar but not really the same.
I heard that Korean have similar grammar structure with Japanese in regards to conjugations and politeness levels. I wonder if it is the easiest for them to learn Japaneses?
-Gracie